My position on porting heads,

Guys,

I want to be "politically correct" and I want to say this tactfully. I have had a couple of PMs on the other forum that lead up to what I am trying to say. My primary responsibility is to port and flow the cylinder heads that Lem sells! There are two of us doing that full time, myself and Lawes, and it keeps us very busy. Lem is a dealer for Trick Flow, for Ford Racing, and for Jon Kaase Racing. I am the dealer for Profiler. That gives us a total of seven big block Ford heads that we can sell you. There are other Trick Flow Dealers on this forum and the old forum. Likewise I'm sure there are other Ford Racing dealers etc., and if you buy your new heads from those dealers that's okay. Please don't ask me to port and flow them. IMO that wouldn't be right, so I won't do it.

However, as with everything there are a few exceptions. For example, if you have done business with Lem, such as bought a SVO A-460 block from him, or bought a set of pistons and a cam from him. Bottom line, if you are in good standing with Lem and he says go ahead and port those Hemi heads that you got from Kaase, then I will port them. I hope this explains my position, and I hope I have not offended anyone.

Thanks,
Charlie Evans

I understand where you're coming from,
perspective; The father in law owns a cardlock gas station. Diesel, Gas, you have an account, pay per month, he later installed credit card slots...so joe blow can stop and get gas or diesel anytime. Its an unmanned but open 24/7 deal. They had a fuel shortage a while back, their supplier was short on fuel. He shut down the credit card access, and left only the Cardlock holders access to the fuel. He said it pissed some people off but his Regular Customers had fuel to put in their rigs when they slid their cards in. So there is the odd person who wont go there now, but the guys who drop 20G's a month on fuel are still going.

Its understandable to take care of your own first. If it causes hard feelings, those people do not understand economics.

Uhh ohh........

Charlie I would like to add something to your post, I do not think it is fair for someone to ask for port dementions of a set of heads you ported so they can avoid the cost of having their heads ported, just not cool....


Randy

You can give the numbers, don't mean they have to be right........

I agree with you completely. If/when I move classes I will be buying a setup of heads from Lem/Shawn and have them sent your way so it won't matter anyway.

richter69 wrote:You can give the numbers, don't mean they have to be right........

The right numbers. port /valve specs numbers are the only one that matter , the flow numbers are the result of that work. does one have the right to a porters specs for free---NO. the Flow numbers are only advert./brag ,

I won't bring a steak into a fancy reataurant and ask the chef to work his magic on it, either.

Very true mav

maverick wrote:I won't bring a steak into a fancy reataurant and ask the chef to work his magic on it, either.

I have been to some fancy steak places that I ask if I needed to go back and show the Damn cook how to cook one though. some people just don't know......


Randy

the Coug wrote:Charlie I would like to add something to your post, I do not think it is fair for someone to ask for port dementions of a set of heads you ported so they can avoid the cost of having their heads ported, just not cool....


Randy

Thanks Randy for mentioning that. Yes, I heard about that deal. The guy called you wanted measurements off of the heads I just did for you, so he could port his own heads. He was out of Mississippi I believe. That wasn't cool on his part.

Charlie

great thread Mr. Evans , i can completely respect your positon on porting on COG heads { Customer's Own Goods } that is the same policy we follow here at work. You spend so much time with a client and give him all this pertinent information and he ends up buying product off of ebay or another vendor and then expects you to do the installation ( because he knows you are the expert ) no, no, no aint gonna happen here. More power to the experts

This thread is spot on. Just good moral thinking.when! not if I get my heads from lem. If I need ported later as I grow would that be acceptable?

waypastcrazy wrote:This thread is spot on. Just good moral thinking.when! not if I get my heads from lem. If I need ported later as I grow would that be acceptable?

Cetainly that's fine. We have had customers before that didn't want their heads ported at the time they bought them, and then the next year when the engine was freshened up, they wanted their heads ported, and I was glad to oblige.

Also guys, notice that I said "another dealer" in my original post. That's what I meant. I do not want to discourage somebody that may have bought some parts from another racer or forum member. I'll be glad to port them. For example; IF Steve Neville had a new set of A-460 heads he was planning on doing a build with, and then his plans changed and he wanted to move up to C-460 heads and puts his A-460 heads up for sale. Then Jon Faubion buys or trades for his (Steve's) A-460 heads. That's fine and I'd be happy to port Jon's A-460 heads. I think you all understand.

Thanks,
Charlie

i hear ya
and i am glad you brought it up
i bought my svo block-cam-lifters-balncer-rockers-
and i have a set of olivers put a side and a crank from lem
he is also gonna do me up a set of pistons
and all the rest like gaskets timming set bearings ect are gonna come from lem
but i just dont have the cash to buy new heads
so i gotta run my old Aheads next season
i would like you to touch them up
and put new valves springs all the fun stuff and see if you can help the flow a bit
so would this be an exception?
my plan was to buy a new set of 18 bolts from lem and have you do your thing to them
but i didnt plan on the motor going down this season

I bought my complete engine assembly thru Lem,but my A heads was bought from a forum member and my A460 intake was bought from a diff forum member. Charlie was kind enough to port both for me even though someone had rubbed on them before him. Plus he showed me what they flowed before he and Mike Phillips did the VJ and he rubbed on them somemore. He picked them up quite abit.
Thanks again Charlie

This is the exact reason I bought my trick flow heads from lem. There great for the shortblock I'm using now but when I move up to a larger shortblock they will need charlies rubbing.
Steve

Similar to Charlie, I will install large valves and "bowl" port heads just like doing normal business with a valve job however, I will only completely port the heads if I am also building the engine.

An engine built by somebody else will NOT have completely ported heads by me on it.

EDIT: Well, Adney Brown is the exception, lol.

I'm a bit giggity about my new Uncle Charlie "C" heads. Will be fun to dyno the 598 with the Kentucky head hunters.

I agree with Charlie on this. When I do business locally I try to buy as much as I can from that business, it is just the way I was taught that if you get services from someone buy from that person.

I can totally understand where you're coming from there Charlie, it's just downright disrespectful for another dealer to ask you for port dimentions on heads just so they can rip off your hard work and experience to make a quick buck. I'm really looking forward to getting my pistons, cam setup, and various other odds and ends for my build from you and your brother. Even spoke to Lem on the phone a couple weeks ago and despite a bad connection I got a really good sense that he's A LOT more than just a parts dealer, he actually cares, unlike all the chebbie-tards out where I live.

I apreciate all both charlie and lem have done on here and the phone call from Lem on setting me up with a new package for this year, Sorry I found a great deal on a used set of C-460 heads and such, instead of trying to get my P51 heads ported. So for future refrance who is a good porter that can port my P51 heads? Some of us are just looking for the best person to do a job or buy the right part from, I am a very loyal person and have no problem spending money with someone who looks after me. I drag my motor 12-14 hours through the mountains to get work done because my builder looks after me and is good at what he does. I would love to give you guys a chance to build or sell me parts but if I have a problem I can not drag or ship my motor to you have it fixed or checked out then have it shipped back 3000 miles in less than a week so I can be back racing the next weekend. I bought my P51 heads from Kasse over 2 years ago and he spent the time to talk to me about a new product that he builds when not many people had even heard of these heads. Sorry if I come accros as a dick that is not my intension, what I am saying is I have no desire to steal someone elses work and engineering I just want the best person to do what they specialize in IE porting these ford heads and be loyal to those who have got me this far

So if i wanted a set of Aluminum A-429 heads ported you wouldn't do them?I bought them back in 2001 or 2002 or around that time.I didn't get them off anybody on here,i don't have the money now to do them just asking.I was just asking for the future so i would know i would have to send them somewhere else?I can see where you're coming from you have to take care of your own providers first.But i don't have deep pockets and when bought my heads i only paid $1,000.00 for them complete in the Ford boxes.I know i would have had a hard time buying them for that price from probably anybody at that time.If i read this wrong i'm sorry but it sounds like in my case you wouldn't want to port them.I can see where you probably wouldn't have the time though,Later Mark.

Guys,

What I'm trying to say is that Lawes and I are both busy doing heads and manifolds. Porting and flow testing heads takes time, lot's of time. Our first priority is to port and flow the heads and manifolds Lem sells, and we will always do them! Another priority is to take care of previous customers that we have done heads for. There are four sets of heads in here now that belong to previous customers, but they either need freshen-up valve jobs, or they need major repairs. For example a set of pulling truck heads in here have had two chambers welded, milled, new seats and 8 new guides, along with an all new set of titanium valves. Repairing these blown up heads takes a lot of time also. As a result we get a backlog of heads to do, especially during the off season. Then as I said in an earlier post, if you've bought racing parts from Lem and he wants us to do your heads, even if you got them somewhere else, then of course we'll port and flow them.

However, IMO there is enough head porting business to go around, and there are certainly other good head porters on this site, such as Bret Powell, Randy Malik, Blake, Dave McLain, Scotty, and Jon K's head porter, along with others that aren't even on this site such as Scott Main. I can't remember them all, but feel free to use them. What I'm saying is, that if you bought a set of heads that Lem sells,(FRPP-SVO, Trick Flow, Kaase, Pro-Filer) from some e-Bay store or mail-order house, then you call me to port them, the answer is no thanks, I'm not interested in porting them, furthermore I do not have the time to port them.

Thanks, and I hope this clears it up,

Charlie Evans