Bad news from the machine shop

Not only were there a couple of scratches from the grenaded valve seat too deep to remove, but there is also a crack in the lower third of #6 cylinder wall
I've got a spare block in the garage but it's gonna take some work, ie; Paul Kane's oiling mods, deburring, chasing the threads with a tap, tapping my main saddles for oil restrictors, and tapping the lifter gallery holes for stand pipes above the cam. Then back to the machine shop for align honing and boring .060" over.
Hope to get it running for our "Spring Thaw" show in late April.

DO NOT PUT OIL RESTRICTORS IN THE CAM BEARING OIL FEEDS !!!

Just to be safe, which saddles should they go in ?

None i.m.o.

if you don't listen to Chuck. You better listen to Lem!

....Loud and clear, thanks !

Just curious. With the exception of elevated valve spring pressures and the use of common babbitt type camshaft bearings, what would be the issues of fitting the oil galley from the main housing bore to the camshaft housing bore with a restriction of sorts in a drag race application?

I'll hang up and listen for your answer!

Dave.

a way to look at it-- put your finger over a hole , bucket full of /// . what happens ? cam does the same thing, only so much oil will pass,

Ranch71460 wrote:Not only were there a couple of scratches from the grenaded valve seat too deep to remove, but there is also a crack in the lower third of #6 cylinder wall
I've got a spare block in the garage but it's gonna take some work, ie; Paul Kane's oiling mods, deburring, chasing the threads with a tap, tapping my main saddles for oil restrictors, and tapping the lifter gallery holes for stand pipes above the cam. Then back to the machine shop for align honing and boring .060" over.
Hope to get it running for our "Spring Thaw" show in late April.

OK why not just sleeve #6 cylinder ? Saves all the work you've done on the block already.



Dan

Guess I have just been lucky. I have run the restictors in all of my engines for the past 30 years. Mostly Clevelands early on but in my 385's both stock and A460 blocks. Dont seem to be having any significant cam bearing issues as a result.

These guys have way more experience and many more motors than I have ever seen so maybe I will have to rethink a bit next time my engine is apart.

Based on the fact that we run as little as a .045 restrictor for the whole lifter, pushrod, valvetrain in the lifter gallery I kinda figured .0625 for each cam bearing would be good

I have been wrong before...

dkp

cam bearing is not the place to restrict.

I have not seen a down side to not resticting the oil to the cam bearings . There are a whole lot bigger 'leaks' than them to worry about.

I understand and respect the opinions that you guys post, although I'm in need of education of our famed Ford 385! Just in case I'm the stubborn type of guy and I'm just waiting for someone to say "I told you so". In regards to a OEM block (C or D something), if a restriction of sorts was incorporated within the galley leading to the camshaft bearing housing from the main bearing housing without the previously mentioned high valve spring pressures and use of babbitt type camshaft bearings, would this restriction offer more volume of oil or oil pressure to the main bearing? I think I understand the "leak theory", so if we can slow the leak process and offer the oil that was leaking to another needed area is that better or worse?

Yea. call me stubborn!
Dave.

The main reason, (whether they know it or not), people restrict the cam bearing oiling is because the main bearing clearances are soooooo wide, (way to wide in my oppinion), that only soooo much oil can get through the actual slot in the main bearing so, they want less of that oil to go toward the cam. The extra bearing clearance is what is required for people who THINK they know what they are doing but, it made the problem to begin with. BUT, more clearance is more forgiving, DAMN what is best.
If you wish to use WIDE clearances, spend a little time to machine a HOLE in the main bearing aligning with the oil feed hole in the block main saddle so the bearing isn't a restriction itself, don't restrict the oil to somewhere else to simply redirect it.

Oh, that's right, everybody thinks they can be an engine builder and they wish to take parts "right out of the box" and have them work perfectly so, they will do whatever it takes to make that happen, even though it is the wrong thing to do in the end.. Have at it...

If I sound a little bitter .... I am, simply because most people have such little reguard to what it takes to learn all the little idiosyncrisies of building an engine, one type or another, which is not simply a production rebuild.
After all, why don't you take your kid's appendix out or slaughter your own meat or pour and level your own concrete, after all it looks pretty easy...?

Ken,
Your shop should be able to do a sleeve for around $200 total ($80-100 for sleeve & $100-120 to install). So if you had to do 2 of them that is $400. It will probably cost you the $400 to totally remachine another block plus all the extra work that you want to do. ??

Randy
That is a good explanation of why people originally would restrict oil flow to the cam bearings to plug the leaks elsewhere so to speak. LOL.
We don't do appendix operations around here but we do slaughter our own beef and pour and level concrete. Have to save money on the farm to be able to build more BBF's. Good info.

Later Mark
PS: You don't sound any more bitter than anyone else in my opinion, your just stating the facts !

rmcomprandy wrote:The main reason, (whether they know it or not), people restrict the cam bearing oiling is because the main bearing clearances are soooooo wide, (way to wide in my oppinion), that only soooo much oil can get through the actual slot in the main bearing so, they want less of that oil to go toward the cam. The extra bearing clearance is what is required for people who THINK they know what they are doing but, it made the problem to begin with. BUT, more clearance is more forgiving, DAMN what is best.
If you wish to use WIDE clearances, spend a little time to machine a HOLE in the main bearing aligning with the oil feed hole in the block main saddle so the bearing isn't a restriction itself, don't restrict the oil to somewhere else to simply redirect it.

Oh, that's right, everybody thinks they can be an engine builder and they wish to take parts "right out of the box" and have them work perfectly so, they will do whatever it takes to make that happen, even though it is the wrong thing to do in the end.. Have at it...

If I sound a little bitter .... I am, simply because most people have such little reguard to what it takes to learn all the little idiosyncrisies of building an engine, one type or another, which is not simply a production rebuild.
After all, why don't you take your kid's appendix out or slaughter your own meat or pour and level your own concrete, after all it looks pretty easy...?

Randy I have never claimed to be a world class engine builder. I do however do the best I can and have pretty good success overall. I come here to learn and listen. I offer advice when I feel I can help. I personally do not think I can take every part out of the box and use it as is on a high performance engine.

It is not my intention to add to your bitterness in any way I was just offering my experience. As I stated I could be wrong and am willing to try something different going forward. I have had no cam bearing issues in 30 years but I have had main bearing issues. My goal was always to increase the load capacity of the main bearing by increasing the available oil supply. As far as bearing clearances go I have alway's been a .0035 with 100 psi cold 25/50 oil kinda guy. I understand that in the last several years many engine builders including yourself are recommending less clearance, less pressure and lighter oil. Old habits die hard but I am considering changing up to the newer theory on my next build.

dkp

bosshoss wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:The main reason, (whether they know it or not), people restrict the cam bearing oiling is because the main bearing clearances are soooooo wide, (way to wide in my oppinion), that only soooo much oil can get through the actual slot in the main bearing so, they want less of that oil to go toward the cam. The extra bearing clearance is what is required for people who THINK they know what they are doing but, it made the problem to begin with. BUT, more clearance is more forgiving, DAMN what is best.
If you wish to use WIDE clearances, spend a little time to machine a HOLE in the main bearing aligning with the oil feed hole in the block main saddle so the bearing isn't a restriction itself, don't restrict the oil to somewhere else to simply redirect it.

Oh, that's right, everybody thinks they can be an engine builder and they wish to take parts "right out of the box" and have them work perfectly so, they will do whatever it takes to make that happen, even though it is the wrong thing to do in the end.. Have at it...

If I sound a little bitter .... I am, simply because most people have such little reguard to what it takes to learn all the little idiosyncrisies of building an engine, one type or another, which is not simply a production rebuild.
After all, why don't you take your kid's appendix out or slaughter your own meat or pour and level your own concrete, after all it looks pretty easy...?

Randy I have never claimed to be a world class engine builder. I do however do the best I can and have pretty good success overall. I come here to learn and listen. I offer advice when I feel I can help. I personally do not think I can take every part out of the box and use it as is on a high performance engine.

It is not my intention to add to your bitterness in any way I was just offering my experience. As I stated I could be wrong and am willing to try something different going forward. I have had no cam bearing issues in 30 years but I have had main bearing issues. My goal was always to increase the load capacity of the main bearing by increasing the available oil supply. As far as bearing clearances go I have alway's been a .0035 with 100 psi cold 25/50 oil kinda guy. I understand that in the last several years many engine builders including yourself are recommending less clearance, less pressure and lighter oil. Old habits die hard but I am considering changing up to the newer theory on my next build.

dkp

I was not directing that toward anybody in particular, just what seems to be the prevailing thought process out in the marketplace.

No offense taken Randy. Just remember that half of all the people on earth are below average intelligence.

Some days I wonder what side of that line I fall on

dkp