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New 545/C6 Combo with Strange Noise

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Post  bbfguy1 on May 22nd 2020, 5:59 pm

Have a 1982 F100 that I converted from I6 to stock 77' 460 and C6 trans with the fins on top. Been driving this truck with same (460/C6 w/2.56:1 differential highway gear) combo since 2004. Had a chance last year, to replace the Scat cast 9000 4.5 crank in my 557 ,that was built before steel cranks were available for the BBF. Long story short the 4.5 Scat had very little use on it and now it was just laying around. Got lucky and had a low mileage, 1982 (46k) 460 and C6 from E250 Van fall in my lap. Used the 1982 D9 block and my Scat 4.5 to build a 545 (.030 SRP dish pistons, 8.8:1 compression,Eagle 6.700 rods) for my F100. I also used the non-finned 1982 C6, had it rebuilt and also had the same converter from the 1982 C6 opened, inspected and cleaned; all was good. I bought a new Pioneer flexplate from O'Rielys for mid 70's internal balance 460.

Just as a side note. I broke the (flat tappet Lunati Vodoo cam 219/227@.050) 545 in on a run stand with inner (ported D3VE heads 2.190/1.760) springs removed and even ran it some time after, just check for leaks be sure all was good. All was good with the engine; no problems.

Got the 545 in the truck along with the new C6/converter and new flexplate. I had no issues getting everything lined up. Spacer plate first, then flexplate on back of 545. The converter fell into the C6 with no issues. It actually all went too smooth, which made me suspect. Once all in the the truck and all bolted up, it spun over fine (used same CVR gear reduction starter from old engine after having it rebuilt for new engine). At this point, I have no exhaust on the engine, so I didn't actually start it up. Old 460 had manifolds. I bought new L&L headers for the 545.

Got the exhaust put on next day, fired it up and I hear a slight metal to metal noise. Seems it's behind the engine and in front of the transmission. The sound does vary with RPM and never goes away. I drove the truck back from the exhaust shop (just one block from me). It goes in all gears and shifts. I just can't put my finger in what this noise is. Engine ,spacer plate, flex-plate and converter all synced up fine. I can't imagine what it could be. I've had it running,got under and looked at the flexplate spinning. Nothing is hot or smoking and no metal shavings. It's basically stock behind the engine, with a replacement flexplate and ARP 100-2901 new flexplate bolts.. It's the same converter that came with that 1982 C6.

Just hoping you guys can possibly give me some advice/thoughts/opinions before I pull it back apart to look deeper. I hate to tear into a new install for a this. I knew this this changeover just went too smooth. This has been my only issue with this swap. It almost sounds like the flexplate is touching the case but when looking, it doesn't seem it is. I thought the converter studs were touching the starter spacer plate, but they aren't. I've been under this thing with scoping camera and lights but just can't determine what is going on. Thanks in advance for any help.


Ken

bbfguy1

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Post  Gregaust on May 23rd 2020, 3:11 am

I take it , that using the internal balance flexplate that you did internal balance the motor??

Starter pinion to ring gear clearance? I have had to shim a few now to get them right with correct clearance to the starter pinion

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Post  bbfguy1 on May 23rd 2020, 8:14 am

Yes. The crank come out of my 557, which was built back in 2004. It was internally balanced, with multiple added mallory slugs. I painfully remember, the balance job costing more than the cast crank.

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Post  Mark Miller on May 24th 2020, 10:14 pm

Gregaust wrote:I take it , that using the internal balance flexplate that you did internal balance the motor??

Starter pinion to ring gear clearance? I have had to shim a few now to get them right with correct clearance to the starter pinion

X2 on the starter shim i used a Cat IIRC Flywheel after my engine would start i would hear the starter gear hit the flywheel just enough to make a little noise,put the starter shim in all is well since then!!

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Post  beech35 on May 26th 2020, 8:59 am

My first thought is why a spacer between crank and flywheel? the factory support ring went on the converter side of the flywheel. My second thought is that the pilot on the 6 cylinder converter is definitely not the same as a 460 crank pilot size. What did you do to address that?

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Post  gt350hr on May 26th 2020, 12:49 pm

+1 ring gear "chewing" on the starter housing on aftermarket starter.

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Post  oldtoyist on May 26th 2020, 7:34 pm

I had stock fexplate bolts rubbing against engine housing. Had to shorted bolts. Flange on scat 4.30 crank must be thinner than stock crank.

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Post  Gregaust on May 27th 2020, 4:12 am

beech35 wrote:My first thought is why a spacer between crank and flywheel? the factory support ring went on the converter side of the flywheel. My second thought is that the pilot on the 6 cylinder converter is definitely not the same as a 460 crank pilot size. What did you do to address that?

I'm taking it the spacer is the block plate

On the ones I mentioned the ring gear was just nicking the starter pinion , but wasn't all the time . I remember one was only as you accelerated sometimes.

The gear reduction starters I get here that are Australian made come with shims to set clearance

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Post  bbfguy1 on May 27th 2020, 7:28 pm

Thanks for all the replies. I just loosened only the top starter bolt fired it up and bingo, no noise. I haven't shimmed anything yet but will get under there and investigate some more. I've had experience with probably 40+ different BBF engine starter/flex-plate combinations on my stuff and helping friends with their BBF stuff, and this is only the second time, I've experienced any noise from starter/flex-plate interference. This is the same 16 yr old starter that came off the old 460 I took out but I was using well broken in, in good shape OEM ford flex-plate. I guess the new flex-plate is just new and fat enough by some thousandths, to touch the starter. Thanks again for all the help.

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Post  Gregaust on May 28th 2020, 5:08 am

Do some measuring , but usually a made up .040" shim does the trick

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Post  Mark Miller on May 28th 2020, 9:54 pm

Gregaust wrote:Do some measuring , but usually a made up .040" shim does the trick

I think i bought the shim i used from Napa!!

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Post  bbfguy1 on June 2nd 2020, 5:12 pm

Pulled the starter did a little measuring and came up with about .037 worth of clearance needed. Made some .040 shims, installed them and clearance issues resolved. No more flex plate starter housing interference. Thanks for the help guys.

My little f-100 with the 545 is a little experiment. Going to see how this 4.500, in a 2 bolt d9 block will hold up as a real driver, that will see at least 10k+ miles a year. It's not going to make much HP because it wasn't meant to. The crank was just laying around anyway and I wanted the low rpm grunt for the 2.56:1 rear. Going to keep tabs on cranking compression and oil consumption.

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Post  Mark Miller on June 2nd 2020, 10:21 pm

Good to hear glad you figured it out!! Smile Smile

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Post  bbfguy1 on September 29th 2020, 8:13 am

Just did another new 460 in my 73' Torino, using a new Power Master starter. This combo just bolted up, sans any shims and starts fine. My little F100 with the 545, is the only BBF ford I've ever had to shim.

I've had my F100 step side, 545/C6 combo running for couple of months and been driving it a lot. I should have put a big stoker in it a long time ago. It's just a blast to drive. Even with the 2.56:1 rear gears, that engine just tosses that truck around like nothing, and pulls like a train everywhere. I'm amazed at the power in between gears, without ever flooring this engine; it just pulls so hard in the middle and top. The low end is a no brainer, and will completely destroy the rear tires from low speed rolls. It's fun having a vehicle like this, that I can drive anywhere, anytime with cold A/C.

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