Any hope of a 450hp 351 with road manners?

Maybe a dumb question. And maybe if I want high HP with road manners, I need a Coyote. But I thought I'd ask anyway...

I have a 94 Mustang GT and the 302 is tired and worn out. I'd like to do something a bit different than building yet another 302 Mustang. Also I heard the 351 block is somewhat stronger. So is there any way to make a 351 do 450hp/tq without significant noise, vibration, and harshness?

I can cancel most of the sound with sound deadening. I have to redo the interior anyway. But I've never really been a fan of all that vibration and jiggling. And I want to drive the car a lot. Can this be done?

Thank you

bennylava wrote:Maybe a dumb question. And maybe if I want high HP with road manners, I need a Coyote. But I thought I'd ask anyway...

I have a 94 Mustang GT and the 302 is tired and worn out. I'd like to do something a bit different than building yet another 302 Mustang. Also I heard the 351 block is somewhat stronger. So is there any way to make a 351 do 450hp/tq without significant noise, vibration, and harshness?

I can cancel most of the sound with sound deadening. I have to redo the interior anyway. But I've never really been a fan of all that vibration and jiggling. And I want to drive the car a lot. Can this be done?

Thank you

For something Like That I would consider a Super Charger. A Paxton or Vortec Side Hung Belt Drive.

If You Want to go The N/A Route a 393 or 408 would be my choice with some good AFR Heads a Victor Intake and a Holley 750 or Early 950 (840Cfm {750 Body 850 Baseplate}) Carburetor with a Hyd. Roller Cam.

bennylava wrote:Maybe a dumb question. And maybe if I want high HP with road manners, I need a Coyote. But I thought I'd ask anyway...

I have a 94 Mustang GT and the 302 is tired and worn out. I'd like to do something a bit different than building yet another 302 Mustang. Also I heard the 351 block is somewhat stronger. So is there any way to make a 351 do 450hp/tq without significant noise, vibration, and harshness?

I can cancel most of the sound with sound deadening. I have to redo the interior anyway. But I've never really been a fan of all that vibration and jiggling. And I want to drive the car a lot. Can this be done?

Thank you

A 450 horsepower "street mannered" 351 is certainly do-able, though not on the cheap.

Personally, I'd begin with a 392 combination with cylinder heads which have an air flow of 300 CFM @ .500" lift; (max air flow is not the goal).

Flat top Cleveland with iron 4v heads, performer, 750 and. A decent hydraulic roller will make 450 happen for a modest budget.

I should have said earlier, I'm just not a carburetor fan. It will have to be fuel injected, that's what I know and feel comfortable with. I realize that may not win me many friends around here.

Someone said a 450hp 351 with road manners is doable, but not cheap. What kind of price are we talking about? I'm a practical guy; so I'll have to compare the price to a coyote swap.

bennylava wrote:I should have said earlier, I'm just not a carburetor fan. It will have to be fuel injected, that's what I know and feel comfortable with. I realize that may not win me many friends around here.

Someone said a 450hp 351 with road manners is doable, but not cheap. What kind of price are we talking about? I'm a practical guy; so I'll have to compare the price to a coyote swap.

My Opinion on the 450HP EFI 351CID Windsor is That Good Cylinder Heads as Well as EFI will Drive The Price Up as Well as The Roller Cam/Parts.

Now If You Get a Factory Roller Block, It May be More Economical?

You May Make Your Goal with a HFT Camshaft Though and Still Have Good Street Manners.

I Like Carburetors and Especially Holley's but, I am All IN for EFI on Boosted App's.

It Makes Life Just Too Easy

Interesting Older Thread on 351 EFI Truck Engines

https://www.ffcars.com/threads/best-way-to-build-351w-motor-to-450hrspower.200022/

All Depends on The Route You Take and Where You Source Parts as To The Final Price, Is All I Know.

bennylava wrote:I should have said earlier, I'm just not a carburetor fan. It will have to be fuel injected, that's what I know and feel comfortable with. I realize that may not win me many friends around here.

Someone said a 450hp 351 with road manners is doable, but not cheap. What kind of price are we talking about? I'm a practical guy; so I'll have to compare the price to a coyote swap.

Port Fuel Injected or Throttle Body?IMO if i wanted fuel injection it would have to be Port Fuel Injection IIRC dfree383 above who recommended the 351 Cleveland Build had the FI Tech Throttle Body Fuel Injection and had nothing but problems with it!!And on another site a guy IIRC had the Holley Sniper on his rowdy SBC and could never get it right sold the car and the new owner could never get it right and ended up using a carb with better results!!

I Would Look at 351 Ford Lighting Truck Builds.

I Would Also Work with The OEM Ford Fuel Injection, Myself to Keep Reliability on a Project Such as Yours.

Here's a Primer Vid, I Found After a Short Search of One.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwkcNBeHb_E

This Guy Also Re-Grinds OEM Ford Roller Cams, If You Want to Save money on The Camshaft.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ssn=ezcondition

Might Make Your Goal with a Good Cylinder Head and Intake or Pretty Close.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285516046527?hash=item427a1520bf:g:HeIAAOSwYLRh4xtT

^ You can run 1.73 Rockers if you want a Little More Lift and Duration Between Seat to Seat Events, Also.

Like I Said, I Prefer the AFR Heads on The Small Fords, Though.

Randy told you pretty much the recipe that will work. Sonething else to consider is the godzilla motor from the new 3/4 ton trucks. You can get one from a salvage yard for a few thousand dollars with really low miles. Or ford offers them in a crate for about $9-10k. Those are around 400 hp bone stock i think. A few tweaks and youre at 450 easily and maintenance will be a lot less than a 351.

Sorry I am not sure who Randy is ...

What makes the Godzilla more reliable than a built 351? Thank you

bennylava wrote:Sorry I am not sure who Randy is ...

What makes the Godzilla more reliable than a built 351? Thank you

Valvetrain maintenance is mainly what i was referring to. With a 351 you will be running retrofit roller lifters. Which will require periodic lash adjustments. The godzilla has good flowing aluminum heads already in place so you save that money. It has 6 bolt mains. Etc. fuel injection in place already, coils, ballancer, exhaust manifolds, etc. You'd just need the management system for the engine and trans unless you go stick shift. Then just a fuel management computer. Im not an efi guy but i believe they're are several aftermarket options fir that.

Not any better platform than the coyote but its more compact. I wasn't really saying its the way to go. Just putting it out there as an option.

I looked up specs on crate version. They are advertised as 430 hp/475tq. Although the shipping weight is a good bit more than a coyote it may be due to it coming with cast iron manifolds and it has a cast iron block. The coyote crate has aluminum block. You may want ti do some more research on that part to get an accurate comparison on weight. Those are just shipping weights which includes the crate and any ancillary parts inside.

Im not bashing the 351w by any means. They are great engines. Any of those 3 will make you happy.

stanger68 wrote:

bennylava wrote:Sorry I am not sure who Randy is ...

What makes the Godzilla more reliable than a built 351? Thank you

Valvetrain maintenance is mainly what i was referring to. With a 351 you will be running retrofit roller lifters. Which will require periodic lash adjustments. The godzilla has good flowing aluminum heads already in place so you save that money. It has 6 bolt mains. Etc. fuel injection in place already, coils, ballancer, exhaust manifolds, etc.   You'd just need the management system for the engine and trans unless you go stick shift. Then just a fuel management computer.   Im not an efi guy but i believe they're are several aftermarket options fir that.

Not any better platform than the coyote but its more compact. I wasn't really saying its the way to go. Just putting it out there as an option.

I looked up specs on crate version. They are advertised as 430 hp/475tq.  Although the shipping weight is a good bit more than a coyote it may be due to it coming with cast iron manifolds and it has a cast iron block. The coyote crate has aluminum block. You may want ti do some more research on that part to get an accurate comparison on weight.  Those are just shipping weights which includes the crate and any ancillary parts inside.

Im not bashing the 351w by any means. They are great engines. Any of those 3 will make you happy.

Sounds like the Godzilla might be the way to go, for me at least. The size of the engine is a negative for the coyote. And periodic lash adjustments really aren't my thing. If you don't mind, a few questions about the Godzilla:

1. How much bigger (in dimensions) would it be than a 351? I'd like to run the stock hood on my 94 Mustang.

2. Could I bump the Godzilla to 500hp and 500tq (or thereabouts) and keep road manners?

3. Anyone have any idea about the cost of the various swaps? I'm thinking the 351 would start to approach the cost of a coyote swap.

Some 7.3L to Mustang Swap Parts and Prices.

https://lmr.com/products/sn95-new-edge-mustang-godzilla-swap-parts

To Me The 351 would be way Cheaper of The Swaps Mentioned.

As For as I Know Mid 1990's Ford Trucks Came with Hydraulic Roller Cams. I am not a Windsor Guy but, Would Think You Could Drop in a Performance Hydraulic Roller, Just Like on a 5.0 SBF.

Like I Said, The Source and Price of The Parts Varies Widely, and If Starting with a Used Engine, Same Thing.

bennylava wrote:

stanger68 wrote:

bennylava wrote:Sorry I am not sure who Randy is ...

What makes the Godzilla more reliable than a built 351? Thank you

Valvetrain maintenance is mainly what i was referring to. With a 351 you will be running retrofit roller lifters. Which will require periodic lash adjustments. The godzilla has good flowing aluminum heads already in place so you save that money. It has 6 bolt mains. Etc. fuel injection in place already, coils, ballancer, exhaust manifolds, etc.   You'd just need the management system for the engine and trans unless you go stick shift. Then just a fuel management computer.   Im not an efi guy but i believe they're are several aftermarket options fir that.

Not any better platform than the coyote but its more compact. I wasn't really saying its the way to go. Just putting it out there as an option.

I looked up specs on crate version. They are advertised as 430 hp/475tq.  Although the shipping weight is a good bit more than a coyote it may be due to it coming with cast iron manifolds and it has a cast iron block. The coyote crate has aluminum block. You may want ti do some more research on that part to get an accurate comparison on weight.  Those are just shipping weights which includes the crate and any ancillary parts inside.

Im not bashing the 351w by any means. They are great engines. Any of those 3 will make you happy.

Sounds like the Godzilla might be the way to go, for me at least. The size of the engine is a negative for the coyote. And periodic lash adjustments really aren't my thing. If you don't mind, a few questions about the Godzilla:

1. How much bigger (in dimensions) would it be than a 351? I'd like to run the stock hood on my 94 Mustang.

2. Could I bump the Godzilla to 500hp and 500tq (or thereabouts) and keep road manners?

3. Anyone have any idea about the cost of the various swaps? I'm thinking the 351 would start to approach the cost of a coyote swap.

7.3 Super Duty 430 Horsepower and 475 lb.ft of Torque so i would think 500 and 500 would be Very Much Possible as your only 25 lb.ft of Torque away from 500 in stock form and i've seen a bunch of Videos with mods so i'm sure it's possible and FWIW Summit Racing in Tallmadge,Ohio has 4 in stock for $7,953.99!!What transmission is in your car now?

I wonder if these are the Detuned 7.3's Coming out of CanaDuH because they are pulling them out of their new trucks to convert to electric, to run out of Juice in the Snow/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165544429396?hash=item268b378754:g:MHUAAOSwhylkY-SL&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8Gl%2BU4yxTDAXy%2Bk81GztUbpVRm394XTi7cb6i5UOvXTQXLimlnkseI6UW5fspl%2FDEmn5lLUvYiPIBs3C60PsS%2F7Fm%2Bh6UJavHzkakJn3fPoVos6DMpB3qwZBn%2BmH3z5ikT64N5lZIGzGroQldMKpWKG5DPdeu3rqp%2Fks%2B10VfIWHp5p3xi%2F6WKh4Ce33eORGc2oWPU7aM7zILyIOkerPpJMTHzC8rYK5AH%2FAMtcC8YUObkgfLMD6az%2BNAfaDPpJS0yusAYLvTroBUNRSu7P7nI7ld0pj%2BzBCoATWw5htKIy6Tn4ffOMKY6TYTT5oah8OkQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_aPsZmFYw

Anyways I Would Much Rather something Like One of These 427W's but, More Budget Friendly.

V 600HP AFR Carbed

https://www.ebay.com/itm/183946875144?hash=item2ad4169108:g:-PgAAOSwKWVck5B8&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0KUQrE7eTI3sCQY7bIlg0s2aVGTkvotzsFTF4FIu%2B1mp1ASEzzRp5Ch3eXGhQBjRfm5Q8DDOXIAw%2FxEE2hD1oMCYZD8Zln9vAVCdk82yo6bKF4%2BOffvA003I%2FzNQTN2ITsMe%2BivwgddHvWvIquzYuo%2FM%2Bs56KOL6ZovGgn8Jr8UK75DocTm0wZveRg0xtMgRg6bHbIixJDQxyeB6DPNt7yu4Ff3KQTtItGFrMn5zo6po4R9MKfCXMkV%2F3b6kZlAmBZhInFqNNYwaKxtzA1zzsXE%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_aPsZmFYw

V 520 HP AFR Port EFI

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174025289922?hash=item2884b730c2:g:3~IAAOSwoVBg-t0s&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8DcwtTX%2FYY4v85GNuDQKwtuJ7LVzB5%2FQZo23N7IhidVCcc6hSxIWKfTDGZEuzvsGUl2lZJFq05d%2BJFLYuD5aaFAHD5itDSppQo5cW5V48PdUdgkOdySWHRmobyGjnsZAsemGsEo731S9J0lvg6ZPEObsMdGz6U7q0pVEvHd1xXwcsroIGgMC97c%2FGYIe8GghyzgBm%2BnDLqkrF%2FNxc3ID1SPDskpTBywiaL%2FQcfknlaLaSyVp2qCiiblFhCXpuy8kTeTmibqV0aDMGApbGHIDvE%2BafuJuUzXSwS8rtLJGUsfwhZhweSMSXo8A6lcTGruC5A%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_SPsZmFYw

A 393 with Nice Parts Could be Built for Less and Meet The OP's Goal Though, Likely Even a 357

PS: Looked Again, Yea CanaDuH

supervel45 wrote:I wonder if these are the Detuned 7.3's Coming out of CanaDuH because they are pulling them out of their new trucks to convert to electric, to run out of Juice in the Snow/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165544429396?hash=item268b378754:g:MHUAAOSwhylkY-SL&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8Gl%2BU4yxTDAXy%2Bk81GztUbpVRm394XTi7cb6i5UOvXTQXLimlnkseI6UW5fspl%2FDEmn5lLUvYiPIBs3C60PsS%2F7Fm%2Bh6UJavHzkakJn3fPoVos6DMpB3qwZBn%2BmH3z5ikT64N5lZIGzGroQldMKpWKG5DPdeu3rqp%2Fks%2B10VfIWHp5p3xi%2F6WKh4Ce33eORGc2oWPU7aM7zILyIOkerPpJMTHzC8rYK5AH%2FAMtcC8YUObkgfLMD6az%2BNAfaDPpJS0yusAYLvTroBUNRSu7P7nI7ld0pj%2BzBCoATWw5htKIy6Tn4ffOMKY6TYTT5oah8OkQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_aPsZmFYw

Anyways I Would Much Rather something Like One of These 427W's but, More Budget Friendly.

V 600HP AFR Carbed

https://www.ebay.com/itm/183946875144?hash=item2ad4169108:g:-PgAAOSwKWVck5B8&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0KUQrE7eTI3sCQY7bIlg0s2aVGTkvotzsFTF4FIu%2B1mp1ASEzzRp5Ch3eXGhQBjRfm5Q8DDOXIAw%2FxEE2hD1oMCYZD8Zln9vAVCdk82yo6bKF4%2BOffvA003I%2FzNQTN2ITsMe%2BivwgddHvWvIquzYuo%2FM%2Bs56KOL6ZovGgn8Jr8UK75DocTm0wZveRg0xtMgRg6bHbIixJDQxyeB6DPNt7yu4Ff3KQTtItGFrMn5zo6po4R9MKfCXMkV%2F3b6kZlAmBZhInFqNNYwaKxtzA1zzsXE%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_aPsZmFYw

V 520 HP AFR Port EFI

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174025289922?hash=item2884b730c2:g:3~IAAOSwoVBg-t0s&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8DcwtTX%2FYY4v85GNuDQKwtuJ7LVzB5%2FQZo23N7IhidVCcc6hSxIWKfTDGZEuzvsGUl2lZJFq05d%2BJFLYuD5aaFAHD5itDSppQo5cW5V48PdUdgkOdySWHRmobyGjnsZAsemGsEo731S9J0lvg6ZPEObsMdGz6U7q0pVEvHd1xXwcsroIGgMC97c%2FGYIe8GghyzgBm%2BnDLqkrF%2FNxc3ID1SPDskpTBywiaL%2FQcfknlaLaSyVp2qCiiblFhCXpuy8kTeTmibqV0aDMGApbGHIDvE%2BafuJuUzXSwS8rtLJGUsfwhZhweSMSXo8A6lcTGruC5A%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_SPsZmFYw

A 393 with Nice Parts Could be Built for Less and Meet The OP's Goal Though, Likely Even a 357

PS: Looked Again, Yea CanaDuH

IIRC yes the first link is detuned 7.3 E450 Van Engines

Mark Miller wrote:

7.3 Super Duty 430 Horsepower and 475 lb.ft of Torque so i would think 500 and 500 would be Very Much Possible as your only 25 lb.ft of Torque away from 500 in stock form and i've seen a bunch of Videos with mods so i'm sure it's possible and FWIW Summit Racing in Tallmadge,Ohio has 4 in stock for $7,953.99!!What transmission is in your car now?

So much less fitment issues than the coyote. Maybe it would look just a bit bigger than the 302 in there?

So $8k for the 430hp version, and $20k for the 600hp version. Any chance of upgrading the engine myself to 600hp for a lot less than $20k in total?

bennylava wrote:

Mark Miller wrote:

7.3 Super Duty 430 Horsepower and 475 lb.ft of Torque so i would think 500 and 500 would be Very Much Possible as your only 25 lb.ft of Torque away from 500 in stock form and i've seen a bunch of Videos with mods so i'm sure it's possible and FWIW Summit Racing in Tallmadge,Ohio has 4 in stock for $7,953.99!!What transmission is in your car now?

So much less fitment issues than the coyote. Maybe it would look just a bit bigger than the 302 in there?

So $8k for the 430hp version, and $20k for the 600hp version. Any chance of upgrading the engine myself to 600hp for a lot less than $20k in total?

I would imagine you could get closer to 600 Hp but not sure how close with ported heads,different cam Headers and larger Throttle Body but not sure how much more it would cost!!