head gasket leak!

well i fired the junk today after changing the main pill and checken the filter out,just get'n ready for next tnt.after i ran it a little and did a few things it got to 200*like i wanted it to,help keep the oil clean in this alky deal.cut it off and niticed a little water under the car,at the header collector!i had been getting some water in the catch can but not much as had been missing from the radiator.the vac pump has always got a lot in the can for it so i guess i know why the oil has been get'n ugly so fast.backed the rockers off,aired lucky #7 up with ait line and sure as hell it was goen in the radiator .got kinda pissed so i pulled the heads off and would'nt you know it was leaking most but i also had 2 more leaking.not only into the bore but looks like also under the intake too.this is my first and only copper/o-ring deal,and last!,but what can i do to fix it?first time it was together i had a leak at a repair on a plug hole and used ceramic seal in it and never had the leak in the bore,also just used spray on copper coat but it did look like some leak under the intake before.i used red hi-temp this time and plenty of it.the leak is at the bottom on all of them. the wire comes together at the bottom on the "leakers"but would it matter where the wire butt's up at?i dont know much about copper gaskets other than my bad luck with them but i could sure use some pointers.lol.block has the groove and wire,heads do NOT have any groove in them,should they?realy would like to use a another kinda gasket,mls,but dont know how that would work with a damn groove in the block. ideas?

From what I hear from the blower guys that run with us the receiver grooves in the head are a must .

thats what i did'nt know about.i'd sure like to get away from these copper sob's.

cometics

the Coug wrote:cometics

i'd love to! thought about some copper wire to fill the groove and go with cometic but i dont realy want to use a file on the deck,it's still in the car just dont have heads on it now.i just cant figure why they leak so bad,wire may be too high/tall?dont remember what it is but should be .015 i think.some have pulled the wire and ran a cometic wothout problems.i'd never o-ringed it but i was gona spray it.

I've never run o-ringed stuff so i can't help you but for future reference, we run cometic gaskets now with lots of boost and ten head bolts on our sbf deal with zero gasket problems and when we ran lots of nitrous a few years ago on another ten bolt sbf engine we also used the cometics with no problems.

when I finally get this nitrous 580+ ci deal put together it will also have cometics and we are setting it up for 600hp+ of spray.

doing some reading i found some who use a MLS gasket with a COPPER wire @ .006 out of the block. could be a plan for me the wire groove is not very close to the bore so it may not be a big deal anyway.this leaking copper thing aint gona work,hell i just got it run'en good! thanks for the input guys.

I had steel O-rings in my block. The guy who fixed mine just used a hammer to make sure the ring was seated in the groove properly, then just took a skim cut of .002-.003 on the decking machine. As a bonus I got a new slick surface for the Cometics to seal against.

BigDave65 wrote:I had steel O-rings in my block. The guy who fixed mine just used a hammer to make sure the ring was seated in the groove properly, then just took a skim cut of .002-.003 on the decking machine. As a bonus I got a new slick surface for the Cometics to seal against.

if it was a bare block i'd do that.it's in the car and aint got 50 passes on it.i got some copper wire today that will fit without doen much work with a file so i may give it a try and see how the cometics will work out.my heads are slick as glass,just cut them .100 when it was down last and the block was cut first time and is also pritty slick.

cool40 wrote:thats what i did'nt know about.i'd sure like to get away from these copper sob's.

Did you ever re-torque your coppers?

My best results with copper head gaskets on my Cleveland stuff used stainless wire in the block, no receiver groove in the head, and GE aluminum silicone for the sealer. After the initial full torque sequence I would go back 5-8 hours later & re-torqued everything again because sometimes the wire doesn't immediately/fully embed all the way in the copper on the first pull. Then I would re-torque again after the first few heat/cool cycles. Doing it this way always sealed great.

The first time I tried coppers I just used the spray on copper coat sealer & didn't re-torque them. Doing it this way resulted in a bunch of leaks.

Re-torque them.

Had the same thing one time when we did an engine for a monstertruck here. Block o-ringed and no receivers in the heads.

BTW we never use any sealants between the head gaskets and now running receivers in the heads.

Frank

thanks for the help and idas. Dave i didnt retorque them but i WILL this time,even tho i have to pull all the rockers off to do it. i was told today by a guy who knows alky engines pritty good that if it was run lean,and it was for sure,it could detonate and cause this.i never realy thought about it but the holes that leaked look like the gasket had been hot or a little blue.the timing was never over 36*with the toilet on it and under 30 with the hat,mostly 24*cuz it run best.he said put it back with copper,retorque after first heat,and put some more fuel in it.what yall think of the detonation idea? hell i may need some rod bearings too!