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Alky problems down the track

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Alky problems down the track Empty Alky problems down the track

Post  frankcons87 on April 23rd 2020, 7:54 pm

1)
Im running an alcohol mfi(rons) 37nozzles, 90-98 pills and the egt temp reach the 1000-1200F at the 1/8 but then starts going down to 400-500F, what do you think it could be happening? I was using 39 nozzles before the 37, but I didnt see much of a change. I bought all the alky system used, do you think it could be the pump/throttle body/barrel valve?
The engine is a bbf 559, 14.4:1 cr, scj heads(stage 2 ported), 30 degree timing, rons 1/2 twin gear pump, 1060 terminator, making 800hp at 6100.

2)
I have a chuck nuytten 1050 dominator with 92 primary and secundary jetting and 40 nozzles that I used in the engine when it was a original 521bbf,10:1 cr, scj heads and c12 vp racing fuel,
do you think I could use this dominator with my actual combo?
what type of fuel would you recommend?
Would I need to change the 30 degree timing? and how many hp do you think it would lose?

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Post  rmcomprandy on April 23rd 2020, 10:11 pm

frankcons87 wrote:1)
Im running an alcohol mfi(rons) 37nozzles, 90-98 pills and the egt temp reach the 1000-1200F at the 1/8 but then starts going down to 400-500F, what do you think it could be happening? I was using 39 nozzles before the 37, but I didnt see much of a change. I bought all the alky system used, do you think it could be the pump/throttle body/barrel valve?
The engine is a bbf 559, 14.4:1 cr, scj heads(stage 2 ported), 30 degree timing, rons 1/2 twin gear pump, 1060 terminator, making 800hp at 6100.

I think you probably need a hi-speed by-pass for top end lean-out.

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Post  Curt on April 23rd 2020, 11:07 pm

Yep, a bypass or a smaller pump.
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Post  frankcons87 on April 24th 2020, 1:43 pm


I think you probably need a hi-speed by-pass for top end lean-out.[/quote]

This was my first thought but after talking with rons people they didnt suggest me that option, they told me to change the nozzles from 39 to 37 but it didnt change much.
Someone told me that the hi-speed by-pass is used when you run 6500rpm or more, is that correct? I use my rpm limiters at 6200-6300rpm.

Do you think I could run the gasoline dominator I have with my current setup without problems? Maybe with vp c16 just to try it.

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Post  kjett on April 24th 2020, 3:22 pm

are you calling the Ron's fuel number or the Killer Ron's number? call Killer Ron's and talk to James Monroe, he will get you straight. The main Ron's Fuel people just want to sell you product.
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Post  Curt on April 24th 2020, 5:21 pm

What is the pulley ratio on the pump?
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Post  rmcomprandy on April 25th 2020, 11:51 am

The last "sprint car" alcohol fuel injection unit I used from Kinsler on a customer's engine had a mid-range by-pass and a high-speed by-pass to keep the fuel curve fairly flat.

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Post  Curt on April 26th 2020, 9:11 am

rmcomprandy wrote:The last "sprint car" alcohol fuel injection unit I used from Kinsler on a customer's engine had a mid-range by-pass and a high-speed by-pass to keep the fuel curve fairly flat.

Randy, we use a secondary and a high speed on our open wheel stuff, plus a stumble valve. But it's a totally different deal than the dragster.  A tattletell would be a good addition on his if he isn't logging to see what pressure he's hitting when it goes rich.  
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Post  HorsinAround on April 26th 2020, 1:42 pm

kjett wrote:are you calling the Ron's fuel number or the Killer Ron's number? call Killer Ron's and talk to James Monroe, he will get you straight. The main Ron's Fuel people just want to sell you product.

I second this. I have had great luck talking with them. Be prepared to give them your entire engine build to get an accurate set up. Also, I believe the Rons mfi systems are supposed to be leaner at wot, and fat at idle, and your temps suggest the opposite. I don't have a logger system yet, so I can't tell you what my wot temps are, but I can tell you that my idle temps are around 550 deg. Also, my system has the high speed bypass and built in lean out valve fwiw.
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Post  litshoot on May 7th 2020, 2:38 pm

I see 2 things, put a high speed. generally their set over 6500, but that's also from people don't do much under 4k rpm. Second is isn't 30 degree low for alcohol, Ive been told to lock out my distributor on pump gas around 34 degrees with a supercharged.
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Post  rmcomprandy on May 7th 2020, 7:18 pm

litshoot wrote:    isn't 30 degree low for alcohol,
seth

Not with those cylinder heads.

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Post  MarkJ on May 17th 2020, 9:53 am

Sure does sound like too much pump in need of some by pass. Once you get a logger you should be able to taylor to your engine. We are using that on one of my friends cars. I dumped my Enderle system way back. Did it come off a correcly running engine when you got it? When Rons first came out they could build the system but had no idea how to tune or get the right size pump for it. Took forever before figuring that out.
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Post  rmcomprandy on May 17th 2020, 11:11 am

MarkJ wrote:Sure does sound like too much pump in need of some by pass. Once you get a logger you should be able to taylor to your engine. We are using that on one of my friends cars. I dumped my Enderle system way back. Did it come off a correcly running engine when you got it? When Rons first came out they could build the system but had no idea how to tune or get the right size pump for it. Took forever before figuring that out.

The thing here is, that if the pump is small enough to be correct at high speed it may hinder the correct fuel delivery curve at low speed.

It is a balance which needs to be reached to keep the fuel pressure rather on the higher side for fuel atomization without becoming to rich.
There is more than one way to accomplish that, just a secondary by-pass, (mid range), could probably work really well here, too. Especially if the pump is a bit oversize.

Conclusion is that installing another "by-pass" somewhere is probably going to help your situation without a large outlay of cash.

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Post  Curt on May 20th 2020, 10:16 am

rmcomprandy wrote:

Conclusion is that installing another "by-pass" somewhere is probably going to help your situation without a large outlay of cash.

I agree.
1st, do you have a purple or black barrel valve? If you have a black barrel valve, get rid of it.
2nd, do you have a secondary bypass now?
3rd, if you do, where is it opening (PSI)? It should never exceed 100psi (at max rpm) in a race application.
4th, without data, you're chasing your tail.
5th,  Before you do any of this, get a hold of James Monroe.        info@killerrons.com 812-327-1190
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Post  kjett on May 20th 2020, 10:29 am

Curt wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:

Conclusion is that installing another "by-pass" somewhere is probably going to help your situation without a large outlay of cash.

I agree.
1st, do you have a purple or black barrel valve? If you have a black barrel valve, get rid of it.
2nd, do you have a secondary bypass now?
3rd, if you do, where is it opening (PSI)? It should never exceed 100psi (at max rpm) in a race application.
4th, without data, you're chasing your tail.
5th,  Before you do any of this, get a hold of James Monroe.        info@killerrons.com 812-327-1190


^^This!

The Barrel valve from Ron's is now Grey. They even say don't use the purple ones.
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Post  Curt on May 22nd 2020, 1:01 am

kjett wrote:

The Barrel valve from Ron's is now Grey. They even say don't use the purple ones.

The purple is still considered worthy up to about 900 hp.
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